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Talk:Dead Thrall/Archive 1
Detect Dead Spell One (if not the biggest) nuisance concerning dead thralls is finding their corpses. Oftenly, when Im travelling with my dead thralls I find a dragon. They start running and engage the dragon, sometimes bugging in places I don't even see, especially when it's dark. The dragon then bites them and throws them far far away. I kill the dragon and now have to look for the thralls... and spend a long time doing that. Sometimes I can't find their corpses because they rerend invisible 0.o But then I heard of detect dead spell. With this spell you can find your thralls with much easier! When you cast this spell they will glow making it possible to find them. I guess the introduction wasn't necessary, but I believe you should add this spell and what it does concerning thralls to the article. It's quite valuable! ? Where do you find detect undead spell Best Level to get thralls Hello. I see many people complaining about not being able to thrall some unique npcs because their level is too high. Also, some people warn about thralling early in the game cuz your thralls will become obsolete as you level up. My question is: what is the best level to start geting thralls (with and without necromage perk) ? Could you explain how the level scale works? Say im lv 40, in that case Ulfric and the other unique (and capless) candidates will have the same level as me? Where to find it? Any ideas on how to obtain the spell? The only way is to join the college of winterhold and raise your conjuration to at least 90. Talk to Phinis Gestor about anything alse you can learn about conjuration and he'll give you the quest Conjuration Ritual Spell. it involves forcing and unbound dremora to submit and bring you a sigil stone. After which, Phinis gives you the Flame Thrall and allows you to buy thrall spells for the other atronachs and the Dead Thrall spell. Edit by someone else: Didn't know how to reply, but I'm adding info on how right now. Who makes good thralls? i im currently using a character whose point is to use the thralls as tanks, who makes good thralls? : Chief Yamarz '''is just deadly and terribly tough, but beware of him losing his sword after a dragon shout... : : Chief Yamarz seems bugged for me. He dies in one hit. He literally can't take a single Lightning Bolt (31 shock damage). : That's because YOU need to fight the giant instead of allowing Yamarz to fight him. If you decline his bribe to fight the giant, and make him do it, he will only have 1hp. If you kill the giant, he will attack you. He will then have about 1,200hp. Honestly, he's... meh. He doesn't do much damage. He's a nice tank. But unfortunately he's so slow in his heavy armour, my pet or follower usually ends up racing ahead and tanking for me. : Orchendor is a nice thrall. Good mage. Decent DPS for a thrall. He has a unique fighting style. His corpse doesn't reset either. Meaning you can just store his body in your home and pick him up whenever you feel like it.( 20:25, April 3, 2014 (UTC)) Werewolves Immune Just tested. Does not work on Werewolves :( 02:03, November 20, 2011 (UTC) Query: Does a werewolf npc Dead Thrall in human form ever make use of their werewolf form? Shall test when I have the opportunity. Locusani (talk) 02:28, November 24, 2011 (UTC) This spell doesn't work on Werewolves (only humans), but Dread Zombie works and dead Werewolves can be found randomly dead in Silver Hand bases.William slattery (talk) 21:53, June 22, 2013 (UTC) Dead thrall disappearing The dead thralls are not so permanent. They keep randomly disappearing. The vanishing act happens when you fast travel to a location or when simply when running to one area to another. This renders dead thrall skill entirely useless since you can not gear the thralls to permantly make them better since they simply vanish with the gear. ''This needs to be confirmed as little information is currently available online. confirm here --> ( Thralls disappear when you fast travel inside a city's walls. If travelling to Whiterun for example, then go to the stables then walk in. I never lose thralls. 05:50, January 15, 2014 (UTC) )'' After doing some testing with a flame thrall and PRID and moveto command it is safe to assume the dead thrall is simply deleted from the game. His reference id does not exist anymore. Discuss this topic here: *There are issues at times with Dead Thralls when loading autosaves rather than hard or quick saves. Solution: Save frequently, and shepherd your Thralls along. I've had an Ancient Vampire thrall in glass armor for a few days now, and more recently added a Forsworn Ravager frost mage. Also note: Different races and genders have different zombie groans. My personal favourite is the Breton female, but I put up with my Nord female vampire's tennis player grunts. Locusani (talk) 02:27, November 24, 2011 (UTC) *There is also a problem with the Dead Thrall when one enters the Dark Brotherhood hold, it does disappear. *I've found the with the sanctuary it seems that they cant enter but if you go back out the door immediately the thrall is still there, it just seems that they vanish after a certain alotment of time of not being present. It seems best to kill them in your home and retrieve them later if you intend to go to the sanctuary. *In regards to thralls dissappearing, this actually applies to all summons... Upon loading a new area where I have a summoned creature whether it was a thrall, dremora lord, atronach, etc... if i had a circumstance where i went to the autosave from entering the area(or fast travel) the summon dissappeared. I've come to notice that when the autosave fires, the thrall, or summon has not entered the area as of yet... so upon loading said save, the thrall/summon is deleted. Ive found that after entering an area and waiting for the thrall/summon to load into the area and forcing a save greatley decreases the likeliness of the thrall/summon from being deleted. I hope this helps anyone still having trouble with the thralls issue. Why i included normal summons into this is the fact that it happens to them, but there generally considered expendable since they are easy to bring back without reloading some save. Vrishnak92 07:40, March 22, 2012 (UTC) *Any summons that disappear like this will come back once you enter a new area or fast travel again. Tested on PS3 with Cicero and Galmar Stone-Fist. *^This will NOT work on the XBOX360, (at least not all the time, I have yet to have it work once.) I have two thralls and everytime I forget about this, enter the Sanctuary and faster travel to do a contract. *Regarding testing with prid and moveto command. The reference id of my thrall also vanished from the game and prid identified his ID as non-existent. '''But even this doesn't mean your thrall and equipment are gone forever. After some time I was back at the place were I had found my thrall for the first time. After some time I found her corpse in there! With all weapons and with the same ID. That means that after being deleted from the game, the thralls respawn in the places of their origins (in the same cell, but not necessary in the exact same place). Somehow game preserves all information about their equipment, also. (talk) 18:35, June 16, 2012 (UTC)]] * I've dead thralled savos aren just before the magical anomalys attacks winterhold. When i walk towards winterhold savos disappears and is deleted from the game. I've googled and googled and i haven't found a fix. I really want savos as a thrall is there a fix? Such a shame that bugs like this are still there even tho the game was released 4 years ago and no patch or even an unofficial patch has fixed it. I did read this on the talk page "In regards to thralls dissappearing, this actually applies to all summons... Upon loading a new area where I have a summoned creature whether it was a thrall, dremora lord, atronach, etc... if i had a circumstance where i went to the autosave from entering the area(or fast travel) the summon dissappeared. I've come to notice that when the autosave fires, the thrall, or summon has not entered the area as of yet... so upon loading said save, the thrall/summon is deleted. Ive found that after entering an area and waiting for the thrall/summon to load into the area and forcing a save greatley decreases the likeliness of the thrall/summon from being deleted. I hope this helps anyone still having trouble with the thralls issue. Why i included normal summons into this is the fact that it happens to them, but there generally considered expendable since they are easy to bring back without reloading some save." This description seems kinda fuzzy to me does anyone have a fix? I really dont wanna use big mods like "better dead thralls" because that is imo cheating. 19:33, March 24, 2015 (UTC) Luddmeister 19:37, March 24, 2015 (UTC) No Falmer Thrall Falmer are also Immune to Dead Thrall, despite being a race of elves. Because they have white souls and Dead thrall only works on black souls. Niebauer (talk) 03:56, July 26, 2012 (UTC) Just use Dread Zombie. It's not permnant, but in some cases it's more useful (like if you want to resurect a Werewolf, Troll or Giant)William slattery (talk) 23:16, June 22, 2013 (UTC) serious issue with cloak spells Casting any of the cloak spells causes thralls to die. Might be good afterall, my thralls are too powerful for my character to kill by normal means. Petefan (talk) 19:36, January 14, 2012 (UTC) Dead Thralls make equipment out of thin air. I completely stripped a dead bandit chief (Rigel Strong-Arm) and cast Dead thrall on her. When I left the house, she suddenly had a full set of Steel Plate armor. If I give her a set of Daedric Armor with no other armor and then fast-travel or change a zone, she once again has a full set of Steel Plate armor and prefers to equip that instead of the Daedric Armor. Fast-traveling or zoneing has no futher effect. I have tried this on a unnamed bandit at bleak falls barrow and the same issue occurs. > yeah, so if you wish to improve their armor, you'll have to use their default spawn armor.Petefan (talk) 19:40, January 14, 2012 (UTC) Dead Thrall limiters I'm lvl 37 and kematu is immune to dead thrall (too powerful). -Has anyone been able to pinpoint the mechanism of wich NPC can or can't be raised as dead thralls? -Can you raise this NPC as a thrall if your or his level is lower? -Are there other NPC that are "too powerfull"? : Levelcap at 40 limits the dead thrall ability. There is a mod, which extends necromancy, though. Anyone can just consult the bestiary for NPC's levels. : p.s. Included the levelcap info into the article. : -Regarding level, I changed Bandit Chief to 28, and then Master Necro in red caught my attention, both according to the official game guide, Master Necro: LV36/467/383/25. Can someone verify the data please :) Petefan (talk) 18:54, January 15, 2012 (UTC) : -Also Champion of Boethiah according to the page as of the signature has a max lv of 51, but how is this possible because my lv 81 character (with Restoration/Necro perk) can raise him? The only possibility I can think of is that I MIGHT have got the quest when my character was lv 30ish. I am sorry I am not using PC but PS3, so many limitations that I cannot "hack" the data to see the whole picture....Thank you! Petefan (talk) 18:54, January 15, 2012 (UTC) : If you encountered him at level 57 or lower, he will be level 38, if you encountered him at level 58 or higher he will be level 51, no variation in between, very lazy programming.Lendial (talk) 19:10, January 15, 2012 (UTC) : Weird then, I encountered him at lv 81...still able to raise him. Petefan (talk) 19:14, January 15, 2012 (UTC) : Beware of Beheading I was killing my thrall to get his gear i was having him pack mule and with the two handed perk my guy chopped off his dome, while funny the NPC is no longer able to be resurrected. A simple reload is necissiary 06:30, December 15, 2011 (UTC)Tom Ahhh after the reload he still doesn't have his head (idk how thats possible considering he had it when I saved) but is holding it in his hand? Fix this by fast traveling somewhere Tom43 (talk) 06:37, December 15, 2011 (UTC)Tom Reformatted I reformatted this page. Tried to keep most of the old info although there was a lot that was redundant and unnecessary. Also added a lot of new stuff, most of it I got from the great thread started by cr8s over at gamefaqs. Hopefully it reads better now. Let me know if you've got any suggestions. Also, that Notable Thrall list is no where near finished so feel free to add any you find. RookwoodX (talk) 06:18, January 10, 2012 (UTC) I think a table view of thralls with stats such as level-range, health , magic resistance, armor rating, enchantable slots, destruction skill ,one handed skill, archery skill, and misc notes would make a lot of sense. Lendial (talk) 08:35, January 10, 2012 (UTC) : Yeah, I started that but then gave up. Magic resistance is set for most of them but that's about it. All those other things vary greatly for different instances of the same thrall. Level-range is also the only one of those I feel is really necessary as well, but I think it would just make more sense to have that on the NPC's page and keep the list to thralls that are effective and available even in the higher levels. : But it would look better, so if you think you can do it without making it messy go for it, I simply don't have that much information on each thrall to fill out the table. I would request that you keep the different types of thralls separate. I think that is the biggest difference from one thrall to the next. RookwoodX (talk) 17:21, January 10, 2012 (UTC) : It would only be neccesary to get the stats for their highest level, getting an underleveled thrall is a complete waste considering the the effort to obtain the dead thrall spell as well as the materials and perks to enchant. : I can readily fill in relevant stat values but i have no clue as how to make tables in wikispace. and yes, sections would remain seperate and tables would reflect type, i.e mage thralls stats: level range, health, magicka, destruction skill etc... where as archery, level range, health,. stamina, archery skill... etc. Lendial (talk) 18:22, January 10, 2012 (UTC) :: I'll play around with it tomorrow and see if I can get a decent looking table. Never made one in Wikia myself. RookwoodX (talk) 05:03, January 12, 2012 (UTC) :: Finally got it done. Think it looks pretty good except for all the question marks, that's the stuff I don't know. Everyone try to pitch in and fill in what you know. RookwoodX (talk) 19:02, January 14, 2012 (UTC) :: looks amazing, thank you! i will input data vals when i can. :: Is there a way to add an additional column for base damage resistance? some mages have an impressive 120 armor rating even without wearing actual armor while some have 0. I tried but it ended up messing up the tables widths. :: Lendial (talk) 19:16, January 14, 2012 (UTC) :: For simplicity's sake, just put it in the notes. That's where we have their armor sets so I think it makes sense. It's also only set for some of them, others can vary depending on what items they spawn with, like Orchendor. RookwoodX (talk) 17:50, January 15, 2012 (UTC) Vampires I reverted the link to the general vampire page. Some people may not feel it's worth investing the extra perks into the Restoration tree just to get a vampire that is 10 levels higher. I think this way its more neutral and provides the reader more personal choice. Ancient vampires at level 38 still make solid thralls. Also its the same line of NPC just different levels, so I don't think we need two links, especially since that page has all the info right there. RookwoodX (talk) 04:59, January 12, 2012 (UTC) does anyone have experience with necromage'd vampires? are they strong enough to justify the perks?Lendial (talk) 06:37, January 14, 2012 (UTC) Volkihar Vampires are the strongest thralls of the game. But cannot be stored so if you can stand the uuuhhuuu all day long yes it is worth it : Volkihar Vampires are the best caster thralls in the game, imo. But Ancient vampires are comparable to the other mages we have listed. They're certainly as good as Master Necromancers. The main advantage of Volkihar Vampires is their buffed stats. They have larger health and magicka pools. They also cast Chain Lightning whereas Ancient Vampires do not. RookwoodX (talk) 21:35, January 14, 2012 (UTC) : I am with you on that, but since in order to be able to thrall lv 42 Master Vampires, PC still has to invest in that perk, why specify? And regarding variations in the same line of creatures, any ideas about adding other mages like master pyro, etc.?? Petefan (talk) 19:19, January 15, 2012 (UTC) : master pyro, necro etc share the exact same base stats but slightly destruction/conjuration/etc skill levels. in fact all variations of the same tier share the same stat (novice fire mage, novice ice mage for example) Lendial (talk) 19:23, January 15, 2012 (UTC) Dremora Dead Thralls Been using Dremora Markynaz and Caitiff since i got the spell, personally i find it perfect, they come with their own armor, just gave them random loot weapons to use that I would have just sold, and never put to much value of items in them. If they dissappear (which they have, and will) they're cheap to replace and easy to get new once (summoning or mehrunes dagon). Thoughts? CpT DiSNeYLaND 03:47, January 26, 2012 (UTC) : I used two Dremora Markynaz(s) and they worked really well, but remember to never hit them with a bound sword with the oblivion binding perk, they will always run away after that, and I have not found a way to fix this Ulfric Stormcloak?! I noticed that Ulfric Stormcloak's body is still in winterhold even after winning the civil war on the empire's side, can he be thralled? AlixeTiir the herpa-derpa-durr 06:34, January 28, 2012 (UTC) Yes, if you're level 34 or under 22:35, July 30, 2012 (UTC) If you kill Ulfric at level 34 or under, reanimate him, he 'dies' again and you're level 35+ will you be able to re- reanimate him again?Yumeyo-yuki (talk) 20:04, July 16, 2013 (UTC) dead thrall bug or sop? i thralled a northwatch archer at level 1, the archer was 4. i am now level 30, and the archer is still at 4 (according to getlevel). the marksman stat is 23 indicating that the archer is still level 4. since i resurrected both a male and female archer, both archers are still level 4 with identical stats. paying off the bounty for trespassing did not level them up to anything, they are still 4. i believe that thralls do not level scale with the world at all. They will lvl scale if you kill them and revive them they do have a lvl cap somtimes though gino sergio Collecting Thralls? Is it possible to bring certain thralls into a player owned house, "kill them" and leave the body in the house so you can use the thrall later if you return often enough? or does the body disappear? Tbone11 (talk) 03:17, February 13, 2012 (UTC) - I think this is possible, but unsure. Bodies that don't disappear under normal conditions SHOULD stay (like Orchendor), while bodies that do disappear (like Forsworn Briarhearts) definitely will. Another thing to keep in mind is potential lag issues when keeping multiple bodies in your house, and that positions of items within your house are occassionally reset. Will test both of these soon, hopefully. (Might not be able to test for a week or two, sorry) ZzirBooty (talk) 15:47, February 26, 2012 (UTC) NOTE: Vampires(al kinds) disapear or COME BACK TO LIFE if you store them and they will raise any other corpse you have planted turning them into piles of dust. Windhelm guards strangly may also come back to life. Ginosergio. june 16 2012 I think this is probably the most important issue conjurers have. Can we park our zombies? The anser is sometimes . Randomly generated creatures no but al lot of special chars can be stored. Dont store vamps though(you can but dont do it). I will list al the chars i have stored for more than 30 days in a list here but ill do this when i have more time. Everyone shoud feel free to begin btw. Barack husein obama 16.52 june 16 2012 This is a good idea mabye also add a list to the main page of bodies that dont disapear 15:25, May 4, 2012 (UTC) I've played around 300hrs and I have collected 12 bodies along the way that haven't disappeared yet. I collected them in this order and have stored them in Honeysidethe whole time. Drahff,Hewnon Black-Skeever,Alea Quintus,Fultheim the Fearless,Vasha,Bassianus Axius,Rigel Strong-Arm,Nazeem, Sorine Jurard,Vori,Beleval,Agmaer,Farengar Secret-Fire,Margret,Assasin Of Old, and the Dead Bandit in Dragonsreach Dungeon. Maybe Fastred too, but I keep her alive for decoration for my house. I made a thrall of the Champion of Boethiah, and it lasted for a few (actual) days. But when I completed the College of Winterhold quest, Revealing the Unseen, and came back and started Containment, my thrall seemed to disappear. I looked everywhere in the city for him (using Detect Dead) but couldn't find him. Finally I just reloaded a save. This time, after finishing Revealing the Unseen, I went back to Breezehome and killed him there, leaving his body in Lydia's bed, saving him for later. I went back to the College and completed the quest and Containment afterwards. When I went back home, his body wasn't there anymore. I'm not reloading another save, because I don't really care that much. I already have 5 Ebony Mails and that's all I really needed him for. He was pretty weak and died quickly since my character's at level 70 and the enemies are leveled with me. But I just felt you all should know. So, basically, beward the Champion of Boethiah- the disappearing dead thrall who ran away from home. I'm gonna go put up Missing Posters and report this to the guards. malkoran thrall shade. if you thrall malkoran and he dies it says it spawns a shade. is this shade hostile to the player and other enemies or just the player? or is it friendly?Lord Tharndor (talk) 03:19, March 11, 2012 (UTC) Hostile Gino Sergio Ulfric Stormcloak. The wiki page says he can be resurrected, but in my game (I have Conjuration lvl 100) it says he's too powerful. Why? Because he is higher then lvl 40 in your game. Gino sergio Quest Characters If an NPC is killed before you complete a quest for them, can you reanimate them and finish it? E.g. someone who needs you to bring them a book or ingredient. Monkey-_ 13:25, March 26, 2012 (UTC) No you cant finish the quest then because al the guy can say is uuuuhhhuu Gino Sergio Trapped thralls I have a problem: my thralls are trapped into a grotto. If I go in it, they are there, following me. When I get out, even if I fast travel, they stay in that bloody grotto!!! How can I fix this? I tried unsuccessfully to kill and rethrall them, spend some time in the grotto, fast travels... Try to make them follow you near the exit i did that once did work. then again didnt always work Robert Deniro Lazurkri (talk) 08:16, September 11, 2012 (UTC)Master VampiresLazurkri (talk) 08:16, September 11, 2012 (UTC) I've noticed that when I dead thrall a Master Vampire (Dawnguard one, not vanilla) He/she still retains their vocal clips. Actually, strangely, when I was talking to another NPC, the Master started talking himself. Could someone update the Dead Thrall page to show this? 'Specialist Thralls' I checked the levels on a couple of NPC's who I thought might make fun thralls and found a couple that were missing from the main page's list. I'm playing on Xbox so there are no mods required but these thralls are from the Dawnguard DLC. An advance warning that these thrall's require some major modification to any normal playstyle but they are definitely worth the effort for those looking for a challenge in Necromancy. My new choice Thralls are Arch Curate Vyrthur and the Traveller. Both can be acquired in the course of the Dawnguard DLC and both have some fun attributes that make them worth capturing. Both Vyrthur and the Traveller level faster than the player meaning that they will exceed the Dead thrall level cap of 40 when the player exceeds level 34. The traveller will randomly appear in any major city at designated spots - under the arch in Solitude, at the main entrance in Winterhold, behind the pub in Windhelm and opposite the Apthecary under the arch in Markarth - he will turn up fairly regularly later in the Dawnguard quest before and after the quest to obtain Auriel's bow - he can turn up at any point during the quest and can be reconised quickly by his distinctive black hooded robe and advanced stage vampirism face w/ glowing eyes. He will no longer appear after completing the dawnguard quest (i.e. up until you kill lord Harkon). My recommended strategy for capturing both thralls is to level Alchemy, Enchanting and Conjuration to 100 before raising any other skills. In order to keep below level 34 before capturing them you will need to avoid leveling any other skills before the later stages of the Dawngaurd DLC. By using Alchemy and Enchanting to perform the Fortify Restoration glitch you will want enchantments that allow you the ability to take any damage while also being able to use conjuration without expending any magica. You will not be able to wear any armor or use any weapon (other than staves) until you face off against Vyrthur. For offense acquire staves (fireball or paralysis can get you to Vythur no problem). Use the restoration glitch to enchant spell schools to reduce magic consumption to zero and your staves will never run out. Another alternative is to use the Fortify restoration glitch to get boosted fortify unarmed enchants. You will be able to one punch anything, if you so choose, although I tend to aim for enchants of below 70 dmg in order to not get too detached from the game. Important*- only enchant and wear clothes or robes as wearing any armor will risk raising your level above 34 and prevent you from acquiring Vyrthur / the Traveller... also keep sneeking and buying and selling to a minimum until after you have captured and enchanted the gear of your thralls if you need gold then raid the dawnstar/solitude/Markarth Khajit trader chests.* This is not the most fun way to play but once you have captured Vyrthur you can go back to your usual playstyle and keep Vyrthur + the Traveller so long as you have used the fortify restoration glitch to get OP enchantments. Once you have captured both thralls You can take their equipment, enchant it and replace it (Billions of extra health/stamina/magica etc...) and then level normally. So long as the thralls do not die they will continue to level while remaining as your thrall. If they die and you have levelled beyond level 34 then they willl have become too powerful to thrall again. Also NB that the Traveller no longer visits after you have killed Lord Harkon. So hold off on Kindred Judgement until you have tired of the Traveller. The traveller has more dialogue than most thrall NPCs and is often hilarious so he is well worth adjusting your playstyle in order to capture. The traveller will routinely conjure a gargoyle to fight on your behalf and Vyrthur will conjure the same frost Atronach that he uses when fighting you at the temple. In total you can often end up with a small army of followers - Dead thralls, accompanying Atronach / Gargoyle, pet and companion (+thrall). Note that with the new duplication trick from the latest patch and Dragonborn you can also duplicate the Sanguine Rose (drop item, follower pick up + move into and out of building) - meaning that your dead thralls can now also wield their own sanguine roses meaning dremora lord thralls + dead thralls. I also sometimes equip them wih their own Miraak's Staff for writhing tentacles or Miraak's sword for the tentacle slash. Time consuming yes but a new twist on the necromancer build and the Traveller is worth every wasted minute. Vyrthur is not as much fun as I thought he would be (he tends to fight at range if at all) but he looks cool. For role playing purposes it is also nice to have a light and a dark follower - an angel and a demon on each shoulder. NB Necromage in Restoration will increse the levels that you can thrall both NPC's up to if playing as a vampire. If you're not too keen on the Traveller then you can also pair Vyrthur with Ulfric although you will need to obtain Ulfric as a thrall before capturing Vyrthur as Vyrthur will disappear during the Siege on Windhelm Finally general tips on keeping your hard earned thralls - travel to stables before enting into cities as they will often get lost when travelling between major cities and autosave regularly (wait 1 hour upon entering any new location with your thralls in sight and go back to earlier quicksaves whenever they disappear ... all too regulalry). If your thrall does not automatically follow you into a new location then pull up your inventory menu as this will often let them load. 21:45, January 17, 2013 (UTC) JayW 21:45, January 17, 2013 (UTC) Dawnguard Scouts Would need other people (on other systems, i'm ) to test these, but for me on my vampiric necromancer Dawnguard scouts encountered as random encounters make formidable Archers due to their default archery weapons being crossbows (around the same strength as deadric bows), and the fact that if you give them 1 dwarven bolt they'll have an unlimited supply of them further increasing their damage. (and from a role-players perspective it's kind of a "F-you" to the dawnguard having 2 of their members dead thralled) Lord Tharndor (talk) 16:27, March 2, 2013 (UTC) Really odd occurrence I have the Twin Souls perk allowing me two thralls. So I helped myself to two Master Cultists. I had them help me defeat General Crix and the Ash Spawn but for some reason they disappeared when I left the fort. I didn't bother looking for them. After that I did a few quests, regularly summoning daedra etc. Later, I fast travelled to Skyrim. My two Cultists were back with me. Surely even if they were alive after I left the fort, they would have been cancelled by my summoning other things. Really odd. Monkey-_ 16:38, May 12, 2013 (UTC)